The Power of Branding: Personal & Business Strategies for Women Entrepreneurs
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Marie: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We're your host, Erika Radis and Marie Lifschultz, a realtor and lender here in San Antonio. But most importantly, we're working moms just like you.
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Marie: now onto today's [00:01:00] episode, grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let's get started.
Erika: Welcome to this week's episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We are here with our guest, Natalie, of Nat Marie Design. Um, and I'm gonna turn it over to her to talk about herself and her work.
Natalie: Alright. Awesome. Thanks guys. I'm happy to be here. Happy to be with Working Moms. It's a great organization.
Um, like she said, I'm Nat. I run Nat Marie Design. We specialize in anything kind of in the branding, marketing world. Yeah, so logos, web design, social media retainers. If you have questions, I probably know, or I can point you in the direction of someone who does. Sure.
Erika: Um, and can you tell us just a little bit, um, I have a, a background in design.
Um, it's not what I do for [00:02:00] a job, but I paid some money for a degree for it. Um, but can you tell us how you got started in design? I love to hear people's stories about that kind of thing 'cause everyone's are different.
Natalie: Yeah, definitely. I, so I studied graphic design in college and then minored in marketing and.
Honestly going in, I didn't really know a lot about it. I knew that I loved art and I was creative, but I wouldn't say I was even like a crazy artsy kid. I was sportsy and all that too. Um, my dad always said, you'd be so good at this, and I was gonna go in a completely different path. And then I literally was signing up for classes and I, I felt like God was like.
Hey, why don't you do graphic design? I don't know, I just had like a weird feeling. So I raised my hand signing up for classes in a whole different major and I was like, I'm gonna switch to this one, and I don't even really know what it is
that is mine.
Erika: That's awesome. Isn't that crazy? I love that though.
Natalie: I just was like a feeling and then I totally fell in love with it. Yeah. Like once I started studying it, I was like, oh my gosh, this was, this job was made for me. This is what [00:03:00] I'm supposed to do. And dad knows best. Yeah. Dad knows best. I know he kind
Erika: of planted the seed, but that's awesome. I love that. Um, and so let's talk a little bit about kind of what it looks like to work with you.
What kinds of things do you do? Um, so that way our audience kind of knows.
Natalie: Yeah, definitely. So I try to be really flexible. I work with mostly like small to mid-size businesses. And what we usually do is they'll, they'll have a goal in mind. I know I need a logo or I have a logo, but it's not working for me.
Or I need a website. Um, you know, something kind of visual. And then. We'll sit down, we'll have a meeting. I'll just talk to them, I'll, I'll learn their goals, and then from there, kind of propose, hey, this is the project plan that I think is perfect for you. And then we kind of go from there. Some people work with me long term, so they're in retainer.
They're like, Hey, can you just do my social media every month? Or Can you take care of this? And then some people, a lot of times, come to me with rebrands or web design or social [00:04:00] strategies, things like that.
Erika: Yeah.
Natalie: Oh, I'm sorry. I was gonna
Erika: ask, do you find that people are coming to you because Marie and I talk about this all the time, like the stuff that you do is like the fun part of like opening up a business, right?
Yeah. And I feel like it's where people go right away. Mm-hmm. Like, they're like, Hey, I don't really even know what this is. It's the pretty, I know I need the logo. It's the pretty part,
Marie: and it, it makes, it makes the business feel real. Mm-hmm. Yeah. When you have a logo and we ask you for Roger's logo, like having something for his welding, I'm like.
Oh my God, this is happening. Yeah, and we didn't even have a business like plan. Nothing. No bank account. It was No. Didn't even have, yeah, nothing. No, nothing. We were just like, we need a logo. That's the first thing we thought about.
Natalie: Yeah, that's what I always say. One of my old bosses when I was working in agency World said, I.
Hey, keep in mind you're the most fun meeting of the week. Yes. Usually. Which is so fun. Yeah. Because really what I'm doing is just getting to know them, trying to like get to know their business and their goals and then turning it into something visual. Mm-hmm. So people do get really excited and it is something that I think [00:05:00] typically if you're starting a business, people will reach out to me.
Yeah. So I do a lot of speaking and things like that for new business startups. Or people know that they don't have that kind of budget, but a year or two years into their business, they're ready to reapproach it. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. Makes sense. So I do a lot of like branding rebrands. Um, with that, like I said, I'll kind of customize it to, uh, you know, you're gonna need a website, you know you're gonna need email marketing, whatever it is.
And then. Sometimes it works out really well and people are like, well, let's just keep you on and you'll be our marketing partner. But those are kind of the avenues that typically people come to me like ready to get started.
Erika: Yeah.
Marie: It's what it, what makes your business real, I believe. Mm-hmm. Like I know, I know it sounds weird.
Obviously business coming in makes you money, but the brand and how important it is, it makes your business a real thing.
Natalie: Oh my gosh. It is so fun and rewarding because. I've had people who I've known that DIY or you know, and they're coming to me a year later and when we do their rebrand, [00:06:00] they're like, they blossom.
Yeah. Like they totally flourish because they, they feel confident. Yeah. Like even just the way they walk, they're like, oh my gosh, I put money into this. Like, look how good it looks. You know? They're happy to give out their business cards. I've had people come and like, we'll go through the logo presentations or the brand guides and they'll start like crying.
My gosh, I've had, gosh, several times. Wow. So many times I've had people get emotional and they're like, wow. Like you really, you took what I, my dream and like what's in my head? Then showed it in a way that now I can show it to people. Yeah. So,
Marie: well, I think it's when you, when you don't have that creative brain and you have it here mm-hmm.
Like you can kind of understand what you want, but you can't see it. I'm that way. Like I'm very logical, I'm very number, I'd like to be creative. I have all I, you know, but I can't see the things I have in my head. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I need someone to put it. In picture form or something like their colors.
That makes sense for how I feel about what I'm doing. Yeah. So it it [00:07:00] you can, yeah. 'cause when I see something I'm like, oh, that's pretty I can't do, and it does. Mm-hmm. It makes you
Natalie: emotional. No, and it's cool because I think I. A lot of people, they, they almost come to me like, oh, I'm not creative. Don't look at my website.
It's embarrassing. You know? Yeah. And first of all, there are so many things that I don't know how to do in business that I need help with. And I'm not a numbers person. You know? That's something that me, I am like, oh my gosh. Yeah, you're probably more like me, creative. Um, but it's so fun because really a lot of it feels like.
Psychology. I'm like, oh, well this, they said this is important to them, right? Or this was part of their story. So I think that's why people get so amped up about it, because I'm like. This is really like me just pulling out what's in you. Yeah. What you're good at. The reason that you were meant to start this business.
Like don't give me all the credit. I'm just finding the amazing pieces of you, Uhhuh, and then my skill and like my talent is to take that and like think a lot and then turn it into something visual. So yeah. [00:08:00] It
Marie: makes it look pretty. Mm-hmm. It does. You make everything look pretty. Graphic designers are the best.
It's fine. I know,
Erika: and we were just talking about it bravely, um, before this, but like you talked about doing like mood boards and, you know, those type of things and like I know what, what's a
Marie: mood board? So,
Erika: well, we'll let Nat describe it more, but, um, I know for me, like, uh, when I would just say like, Hey, send me just like inspo photos.
Mm-hmm. And it doesn't even have to be in your same industry. It doesn't even have to be logos, like just yeah, some colors or fonts or like, send me anything that you kind of like, and for me it was so fun to try to like find the commonalities and be like, okay, this is kind of what we need to do. And so I imagine maybe your process is similar.
Natalie: Yeah, definitely. So mood boards are basically kind of the first step before anything visual. So I'll go through and pull Pinterest inspiration or even things like pictures of things and logos and brands out there. Inside or outside of industry. And I'll just say like, these are some different, almost like vibes.
Yeah. You know, if this is your [00:09:00] business, you could have this look and feel to it. You could have this one and it's a fun meeting. 'cause I just have my clients tell, I'm like, point to what you like, point to what you hate, you know? Yeah. I'm gonna get to know you from that. But to your point too, like sometimes those conversations will turn into, like, I've had a client who.
In that mood board meeting, she's like, I just love the Renaissance era and the classy field. I'm like, oh, this'll be fun. Yeah. Like, I got to look up stuff or, or I am a bookkeeper, but what really drives me is that I'm able to afford a vacation for my kids. And I'm like, okay, like let's bring that in, you know?
Yeah. So a lot of times it's like that conversation starter. 'cause it's really hard as a designer to just dive in. Yeah. I mean, there's so many directions you can go. So it's just pulling a ton of like beautiful imagery and Yeah.
Marie: I can understand that. Like, 'cause in, in what I do, I deal with a lot of numbers and I can, numbers can make things work a lot of different ways.
Mm-hmm. There's a lot of ways to manipulate those numbers. So understanding someone's goals Yeah. Really helps you put the numbers to make [00:10:00] sense for them. Exactly. So I understand too. I, I get it.
Natalie: Yeah. Like what's your goals going into it? What are you naturally drawn towards? And that kind of gives me those like magic nuggets to.
Okay. I know her. Now I can go in and sketch and design. Now, would you
Marie: advise someone or help them if they have an idea that might not be the best for their business? Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. Like, I just wanna be all black. Yeah. Or whatever the case and like, you know what, that one's not gonna drive customers for whatever the business is.
Yeah. Is that something that you would advise people on?
Natalie: Yeah, definitely. Mm-hmm. I think that, um, you know, a lot of people hire me because they know that I'm, they trust me. Sure. They've seen my work so. If I feel like they're going the wrong direction, I'll say something, you know, in a nice way and I'll give them an alternative like, Hey.
Maybe you are personally drawn to that, but like, that doesn't make sense for your industry.
Erika: Yeah, no.
Natalie: Um, and I never present anything that I don't want them to pick. Right. You know, because that, that happens too. Like, designers always joke, oh, they picked my least favorite option. [00:11:00] I'm like,
Erika: all the time,
Natalie: and it, it does, it will happen.
So I'm like, I have to feel so confident with like all the things that I'm gonna present to them so that I'm happy with. I know whatever they choose is good for their Got it. Their business and their industry too. Even your least favorite is still a favorite. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like I still have my favorites, but you know.
Erika: Yeah, I used to tell people like, Hey, this maybe isn't gonna print great. Or this isn't, like if you do, like, people wanna get like really, really detailed with a logo. Yeah. Like tiny details. And I'm like, when you put this on a business card that is this tiny, you're not gonna see, it's gonna look like a blo.
Like, you're not gonna see any of this stuff. Um, and so sometimes you can sort of, and maybe that's like the real estate in me, like trying to like be like, all right, like sometimes you can kind of work around where it's like, this doesn't make sense. Because it's just not gonna look like it, it's not gonna look good in the applications.
I think that you need to use it. So you can tell people stuff like that. And it's the truth. I mean, it really is. Yeah. Um, and that is some guidance I think, that you can give people, and I'm sure you do. Mm-hmm. Um, [00:12:00] have you ever like gone into these meetings and you, like people will tell you, and they do it in real estate all the time,
Marie: you're lighting up so much when you talk about this, this is, this is
Erika: what I want.
And you're like, cool, I'm gonna pick all these things that you said you want. And then by the time you get to that meeting, they're like. No, like none of this works. Youre like mind and you're like, wait. Yeah. You
Natalie: said I have had that happen before. Um, I mean, I've really only had like one instance where I think I struggled with like capturing
Erika: Yeah.
Their
Natalie: vision in the beginning. And it was because they told, they basically what they ended up with was like exactly the opposite of where they started. Yes. You know, like they were like, we don't wanna be too Texas. We don't wanna, you know, be, and then their logo ended up having like the Texas state. And I'm like, okay guys.
Yeah. But I try to be patient with people. Like I tell them, you know, if we need to explore different things, even if you go back to the original, if you have to see it, you have to see it. You know?
Erika: Yeah, that makes sense.
Natalie: But with boundaries too, like I'm like, look, we have this many rounds [00:13:00] of revisions. Yeah.
'cause we can't just go on forever. Like we have a timeline and. So I have to find those boundaries of here's where we have to keep the project on track. Yeah. But also where I need to be patient and like give you grace. If you, if you totally change things around, like what's important is that you get what you love.
Yeah. You know? Totally. And you have a logo that's perfect for you. So
Erika: do you have any advice for someone that maybe, like, maybe they're just starting out so they don't have a big budget. Um, where would you recommend they start? In terms of their branding?
Natalie: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I would say. You are, if you need to set up your brand, don't just do a logo, do a full brand guide.
Um, and if you don't know what that is, I can share them. I can, you know, talk on that more. But try to think about, I need multiple versions of my logo, but also where am I gonna be showing up If I am a brick and mortar space, do I need to have some custom patterns and things that I can turn into signage If I.
Know, I'm gonna be on social [00:14:00] media a lot. How can I have icons and illustrations that are really good for digital use? That's what your brand guide is. It's kind of walking you through logos, colors, fonts, um, you know, any sort of assets, but cater it to what you need for your business to start out. 'cause I think a lot of people.
Just do their logo and then they, they never have like a full aligned like visual plan. And there are ways you can DIY it, you know, and then there are ways you can work with a designer. You don't have to spend tons and tons of money at an agency. You could find a freelancer like me. We're not as expensive, obviously.
Sure. Or what I tell people too, I'm like, look, if you know you really don't have a budget. You're gonna go DIY, this, I will go get coffee with you. And I'm, that stands for Anybody listening? I'll get on a phone call. Like if you just need to like pick someone's brain Yeah. And say, Hey, because I totally get it.
You know, we all have different budgets when we're starting out. Yeah. We all start somewhere now. Can
Marie: you go a little bit more into why [00:15:00] the brand guy, like why that's important? Mm-hmm. Like what? For a small business?
Natalie: Yeah.
Marie: Like why is that important?
Natalie: I would say your brand guide is gonna help you have. The full visual toolkit set up.
So I think a lot of people like, yes, your logo's the strongest part of your brand, but if you're struggling with, okay, now I'm gonna post different colors every single time I'm putting something out there, or I. I'm gonna use different fonts on my website versus my social media. It kind of makes your brand look a little bit more amateur.
Erika: Yeah.
Natalie: So just having it basically, it gives you the consistencies that you need so that when you go and make your marketing materials, you're, you're aligned. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So that's why I say like a lot of people think I just need a logo, but. You kind of need to build out a system. Yeah.
Because you wanna build trust. Really what your branding is doing is it's connecting with people and then it's, it's showing your legit, it's building trust. It's [00:16:00] showing. So if you can have consistency in how you're showing up visually, you just show up more professional, more cohesive, and people kind of trust you more.
Erika: Got it. Got it. And having that together is fairly inexpensive. Mm-hmm. I mean, you can, you can look mm-hmm. Together fairly cheap. You know, I mean, in, in the beginning, but I, I mean, and we talk about it all the time. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm a really big proponent of like, doing that thing. Mm-hmm. And then staying with that thing, picking that thing.
Yeah. I understand. Like, some companies have to do rebrands, you know? Yeah. And if not for that, you know, sometimes you wouldn't get the work that you get.
Natalie: Mm-hmm.
Erika: But, um. You know, you've gotta kind of stick with something because if people start to know you as that and then you do a switch mm-hmm. They, if they may lose trust and be like, what is this?
Like, oh, they must have not been doing well and so now they have to redo, redo it. Yeah. You know, do all that stuff. And so I think putting together that simple, um, kit in the beginning and just being like, look, I don't have to love this, but I can live in it.
Natalie: Mm-hmm.
Erika: Um, I think is is important.
Natalie: Yeah. And I think like.
[00:17:00] But like you said, a brand guide, like having a good logo and a brand guide in the grand scheme of what marketing can cost isn't, isn't super expensive. It's on a project basis. It's like a one-time fee usually. Yeah. You don't wanna pay for paid advertising on Instagram without that. You don't wanna start actually putting money behind different ads if you don't have it.
So just get yourself set up and, and be consistent with it. Like if some people know, Hey, I'm gonna DIY this, I'm gonna come back in a year and we'll strategize. Okay. How can we rebrand you? But in a way that your audience, it transitions well. Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah. So whether you're like starting out or you're.
You. You know, you need to reapproach it, but you wanna do it right. 'cause you don't wanna rebrand every year, you know? Oh,
Erika: no. Yeah. Horrible. Yeah. Yeah. And expensive. Yeah. I mean, think about it, like especially places that have like brick and mortar and that kind of stuff. I didn't learn until we got this place.
Mm-hmm. Signs are expensive. Yes. Yeah. Very expensive. [00:18:00]
Natalie: And again, yeah, if you're going into a brick and mortar business. Getting your brand guide is probably the cheapest part of all of that. Oh yeah. Compared to production and you know, signage and all of that. So,
Marie: well, I think that's how people recognize working months.
You know, it, it's, we've kept, you've kept it consistent. Yeah. And I don't love
Erika: this logo. Yeah. Like, honestly, it's just, but it's fine. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And it's the colors and it's, you know, it's what it is. Like it's got the Elmo on it, like Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's, it's fine. Um, if I had created this logo today, it would look different, I think.
Yeah. Um, but this is what we are and I can live in it. And that's the thing. I think people. And when I made this, I probably did love it. I was probably like, yeah, this is the best. But, you know, you change, just like you change of anything else, you should, your styles change and you know, what you think is is, uh, aesthetically pleasing changes all the time.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it's what we're known for now and so we're gonna keep it. No, definitely.
Natalie: Yeah. You as you should. And you've created, I mean, you have a whole vibe. You have the [00:19:00] blue colors, you, so you've, you've honed in on your branding where. Like your logo's only a piece of it. Right? I know you guys are my, when I'm scrolling through Instagram and I stop and it's that blue, you know?
Yeah. So you've kind of created a whole. Um, vibe around it. So originally
Marie: it was pink and brown.
Erika: Yeah. Originally it looked a lot worse than this, but that's okay. Yeah. Um, well that's awesome. Yeah. No, and I think that's great to kind of get started there mm-hmm. And kind of just build on it from there as your budget builds, you know.
Yeah. And that kind of thing.
Marie: Well, I mean, there's a lot of, um, the DYI, I think. For me, because my brain, I, I have such a hard time seeing things. Mm-hmm. Like I can describe, oh, I like this type of style. I like, you know, the clean lines and, and whatever. But I have a hard time visualizing it. So having someone like you not, or even Erica, to help me see.
So I think I, when I was trying to, looking for like, I need a look, I want my name and my name's long. Yeah. How do we make this look where it's legible? Mm-hmm. Right? Because if you, like you, I hadn't thought about it. [00:20:00] When you put it on a card, you're not gonna be able to read it if it's tiny and it's, you know.
Erika: Yeah. And it's funny, like you mentioned the long name. Mm-hmm. Like a lot of times companies, they do want their name in there. What if your name is spelled weird? My name is spelled weird, right? Mm-hmm. My first name, I've spent my entire life saying Erica with a K, and I hate it. Yeah. You know? And so it's like, or even Marie, you know, guaranteed rate.
Yep. They changed and rebranded just to rate because no one could spell guaranteed.
Marie: Yeah. Like that. People were like, what? And I'm like, the problem with the logo for my company is like, it says rate, which is great. It has something to do with what I do, but it doesn't tell people. Mortgage company. It's like, it's not like mortgage rate.
Yeah. Or you know, right. Lender. Like, it doesn't say the whole, they're like a what? And I'm like, huh. So I'm sure you have, I had no choice in the
Erika: branding. I'm sure you have to have those types of conversations where it's like, Hey, mm-hmm. Have you thought about that? Maybe people can't spell this. Or maybe this is really long, you know, or that kind of thing.
Yeah,
Natalie: definitely. No, I've had, I mean, people will come to me ready to brand and we'll help even with their name, you know? Yeah. [00:21:00] So that's a service I'll do with people too, because. You have to check even things people don't think of checking. The domains are available. Yeah. Checking social media is available.
Thinking about spelling, thinking about like visually, is that length gonna work? Um, and if, if I feel like they're making a mistake with that or, you know what I mean? I'm like, okay, well. I'm not gonna tell you what to do with your business, but here's what I suggest. Yeah. Or here's like an alternative, you know?
Erika: Yeah. Are there any like tips that you could give our listeners when they're starting to think about branding and that kind of stuff?
Natalie: Mm-hmm. I think, I mean, mainly. Pay attention, you know, to what's around and what's standing out to you, because that will help you a lot to wrap your head around it. Like you say, I'm not, you know, I can't click with the visuals and creative, but you are like, you notice things when you're grocery shopping, you know, everybody probably does.
They just don't, you know, see that in themselves. And then I also have, [00:22:00] uh, it's like a brand discovery worksheet, so I can send that to you if you wanna give it to the listeners. Oh, sure. But it helps people think about their. Target audience and their vision and you know, some of those prompts that even before branding, you wanna start to think about because it'll get you in the right head space of, okay, is my, is this path that I'm taking is this logo?
Even if I like it, does it connect with my audience? Will it make sense for my industry? You know, things like that.
Marie: I was just thinking as you were talking about that I work for a company, but I'm a hundred percent commissioned person. Mm-hmm. So I'm self-employed in the sense, right? Yeah. So I have to build my business and I've not really built my own brand.
For me. Mm-hmm. My company, I'll share, obviously it has a nice big red arrow and it has rate and stuff like that, but for me, myself, I've not ever thought about like making sure that I am branded. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So even companies like even if you're like, because real estate agents do that as well.
You have the logo for whatever company or brokerage you're [00:23:00] under, but it's you the person that's the brand. I need to do that. Of course you do. Yes.
Erika: Yeah, I'd love to talk about that a little bit. Mm-hmm. So how important do you feel like personal branding is maybe in industries like ours where mm-hmm. You are the face and you, I mean, there's a million, like in my industry, they don't really care what brokerage I'm with.
Yeah. Um, so for us feel like it's fairly thing for, I most
Marie: part, my real, for our partners. As long as they can get ahold of me, I'm good. They don't care what company I'm with. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Erika: How do, how important do you feel like that is in terms of personal branding in that?
Natalie: Yeah. Well, I think the first thought is.
Kind of what I was saying with that target audience and vision. Mm-hmm. Like do the mental work, I guess is what I would call it. Okay. Of that, I'd think anybody should do that. And also pull out what makes you special and you different. So that's kind of pre branding, you know? Right. The planning and things like that.
But really like a lot of people in that type of field, like real estate, maybe they've never thought about that before. Why am I the right real [00:24:00] estate agent? What is special with me or the right lender? I think that's an super important exercise, and then think about where you're showing up and that will tell you how much branding and marketing you should do.
If you know, okay, I find my audience with social media, then you probably want maybe a more simple logo, but investing in social media templates, you know, investing in. Things that you can use and, and headshots. Things that you can show your face if, you know, I mostly know people through networking. I'm gonna need a logo and a business card, and maybe even some sort of like brochure or flyers.
So that's what I would tell people because it's different than like a brick and mortar where everything is so visual. Mm-hmm. You know, there are ways, like, I like to meet people where they're at and like, customize it around. This makes sense for you. I'm not gonna sell you something that you don't need.
But if you know you need a website, invest in that. If you don't have to work on that, then [00:25:00] invest in social media templates or something else instead. But just thinking about what makes you special, all of that kind of like brain work upfront and then thinking about, okay, realistically, what sort of visual tools do I need for where I show up?
And I think everybody should have like a logo too. Sure. I usually think that's like a foundational piece, but yeah.
Erika: Do you feel like the age of websites is coming back around again? Like, I feel like it used to be that like everyone had a website and it was like super important and then for a little while it felt like websites weren't that important.
Yeah. And now I feel like it's coming back again where people need 'em.
Natalie: Mm-hmm. That's what I think, I think was social media. It's fluctuated. So you, you had to have a website before, 'cause social media didn't exist. Then a lot of people just relied on their following for social media.
Erika: Yeah. Which is so scary.
Natalie: Which is, and then I think people are realizing they can't do that anymore. Yeah. So they are having, and also long form content is really hot right now. So people are going back to [00:26:00] having a website, having a blog, having an email list. Because we've seen what happened with the whole like TikTok band and all that.
Sure. I mean, what if you built your whole business on that and then. I know it came back, but what if it would've stayed off? You know, like people were really scared. And same with Instagram or LinkedIn or anything like that. So I think, I think that we're starting to realize we're not guaranteed social media.
Right. Um, we're, and really we don't own any of that. It could just disappear. Yeah. So people are going back to, okay, traditionally like, what do I need to keep my audience? And people are starting to really fall in love with, okay, I'm gonna actually go check their blog, go check their website, sign up for their emails, because people want that human connection.
They're investing more in that long form content.
Marie: Yeah. I mean, I use social media to kind of find someone, and then I, I go look for their link and I go to their website now. Mm-hmm. So I wanna see, it's a little easier for me to find products I want or know about that, that [00:27:00] particular person or company. By going to their website.
It's easier. Yeah. Yeah. Versus trying to find. Go through all the reels, or go through all the posts and stuff. Mm-hmm. I will eventually do that, but I go find them. I see it. I like their, their content and then I'll go to their website.
Natalie: Yeah. I feel like I need to see their website to, to trust it too. Like are you real?
Erika: Does your website look like it's from like 1995? Mm-hmm. Like I literally opened a website the other day and I was like, this is like a blast from the past almost. You know what I mean? I was like, this person really maybe doesn't have their stuff together. I get
Marie: really frustrated with like under construction.
I hate when I drive me. Oh yeah. Oil. It's been so, mm-hmm. It drives me nuts.
Natalie: Yeah. And if it is, you're like, okay, has this not been used? Like if it, you know, if it's outta date, it's, it's like, I don't know if they're still alive or, you know, working on this. Yeah, that's
Marie: true. Yeah. How do you know they're still actually, I mean, 'cause social media, you can find accounts and go on through the media.
Mm-hmm. Sometimes I have a hard time seeing when it was posted, I don't know how long ago this was, but if I can go to the website and see recent. Activity. Mm-hmm. [00:28:00] Then that makes more sense. Yeah, it legitimizes it for sure. Yeah.
Natalie: Yeah, and I tell people too, like when you're, when we're working on a website together or if they're DIYing it, you need to think about the customer journey.
So break down if they found me on social media or if they met me at working moms and took my business card and they're looking me up, what are the top things they need to know first? And like, I think the hierarchy of your website. Is just as important, if not more important than like the design of it.
Okay. I know that I'm a restaurant and the first thing they're gonna check is my menu and my hours. Is that accessible for people? Yeah. You know,
Erika: what do they say? Like above the fold or whatever. Mm-hmm. You've gotta have all your, all your info. Info at the top, not type
Natalie: person, but mm-hmm. Yeah. Like you have to try to, what I usually do is like capture them with the way that they land on your page.
Then think of like your top three things that, whether that's breaking down three different services, whether that's, you know, three things you know people are looking for, [00:29:00] and try to include that and give it more context on the sub pages so people get everything they need on your homepage. They don't have to.
Dig and, you know, be buried in your website to find the information they're looking for.
Erika: She's making me feel like we need to adjust our website. You may have to adjust our website. You think so? Yeah. Some of it.
Natalie: Yeah. I need to adjust mine too. I mean, you always, that's the thing with marketing and branding, like it's ever, it's ever changing.
Sure. There's always ways to improve, but
Marie: it's such a, it's marketing is such a pain point in my life. Ugh. I, I, I love, I love you don't like it because you don't
Erika: like the colors and all the stuff that you're affiliated with. I
Marie: can't stand it. Mm-hmm. But it is, but it's just hard. 'cause when you, when you're focused on your job or, or what you do and what you're good at, I'm not good at that.
Mm-hmm. I don't wanna think about that. Why does it have to be a thing? So having someone in your corner to help guide you or do it for you. Yes. Big plus, no, definitely.
Natalie: That's what I think, especially I see this with social media, like business owners will [00:30:00] take. Hours and hours and spend all their time in there.
And then they come to me and they're like, I just don't know how you do this. Like, this is so frustrating. And you as a business owner, you wanna work on your craft, like what you're passionate about, why you started your business. So I try to help set people up so that they're, they're looking at it the way a marketing agency would.
So I'll work with people ongoing, you know, Hey, I know that I need you to help me with. Email and social and website updates every month. Here's a retainer. Or I tell people, if you know you don't have that budget, let me get you set up, but I'm gonna teach you how to do this so that you don't have to have the pressure of posting every single day.
Like you're gonna do it the way marketing people do it, you know? Yeah. So I try to teach people about that. 'cause I'm, I'm really passionate about what you're saying, like when it's a pain point and you feel like it's taking up all your time and it's really frustrating. Like, I want it to be the fun visual part of your business.
So I [00:31:00] wanna, wherever you're at, like try to give you that support. Spent spent all
Marie: day yesterday as we were not working, but working, trying to, I, I needed to do something. I'm like, I haven't posted anything. Mm-hmm. Personally, like we have templates that my, my company will provide and so forth. And they're good.
They're not bad, but they're, you know, they're not my style. So I wanted to put out something. So I actually had someone, a friend of mine, just at my other, um, office, take pictures and she gave them to me and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna make some, you know, post out of it so I can see my face and see this, and I, mm-hmm.
It ain't gonna get done. 'cause I didn't like any of them. It didn't come out good. Yeah, it was awful.
Erika: That's hard. I mean, I feel that way too sometimes, but then I have to, 'cause you know how I like things to be, but then I have to kind of get outta my head and be like, okay, well done is better than not done.
Right? Yeah. Like posted is better than not posted. Mm-hmm. And it probably looked fine. No, I could not
Marie: make camera work. The picture wouldn't fit in the square and it just didn't, I'm like, I can't, how do I, if I minimize it, then you see the back. It doesn't look, I would just. Finagling with the graphic mm-hmm.
Drove me bananas and then I couldn't pick the font. I, I mean, [00:32:00] you know, I started and then I overthought anyways. Yeah. But it was just so painful if I couldn't have someone just. Either show me like, Hey, always use this font. Yeah, always use
Erika: this.
Marie: Yeah.
Erika: And maybe like frame or whatever to that's point. Maybe.
Then that's why having that brand kit is so important. Mm-hmm. You don't have to think about it. You've already set which fonts you're gonna use for which types of items and that kind of stuff, and so you don't have to mess with that. You don't
Marie: have to think about it. Yeah. So having someone to guide you Exactly.
Would amazing to have them because it's just not, that's not where my talent lies. You don't want me doing graphics, you want me working on numbers? Don't, don't let
Natalie: someone else do that.
Marie: Yeah.
Natalie: That's totally why. I tell people like why the brand guide is so important. 'cause if you already knew I don't have to pick a font or I don't have to, you know, it will save you so much time.
Same with a lot of people will do social media templates with their brand guide. They're like, I know I have to post on social media. I don't wanna have to pull something from a blank screen every single time. I'm pressured to post. Let's create some templates. We we're doing it with your brand guide anyways.
You're doing it with a designer so you [00:33:00] can trust that it looks. Good and professional, like you have to approve it before the project's done. Yeah, so that'll help. Or you know, same with website, some people like really struggle, so I try to find where people. Where I know their business needs to show up, but also where I know that they're gonna wanna save time later, they're not gonna wanna have to struggle with it, you know?
Yeah. Because it, it, I, I hate that for you. Like, I feel so bad and I, I totally get it. I talk to people all the time, and like I said, there are a million things and that I am get super, I get so frustrated with like bookkeeping and things like that. So it's just, if it's not. Your thing, like you didn't start your business to post on social media.
Nope. But you know, it's kind of one of those, it wasn't even a thing
Marie: when I started. Yeah. It's like
Natalie: a necessary evil. Like, you know, you have to, so how can you get yourself set up so that it's not such a frustrating experience all the time? Yeah.
Marie: Well you had said, mention something earlier, made me think about you had said, Hey, we put your money where you need.
Like, so if it's a website, let's put in that you need that. Let's put your money there first. For [00:34:00] me, I feel I get the best. Reach on social media when I have, um, when I show my face. Yeah. Like when I, people know that I'm, your, my goal is to be the next door neighbor mm-hmm. Type person that is gonna help you with questions that someone, you don't have to call away 900 number.
Call me, let me help you with that. Mm-hmm. Kind of thing. So I, I realized I get, but I, I need to, I need to invest money into some really good. Photos or headshots, that kind of stuff. Exactly. So then I can implement it because I think that's what's bothering me. Like these don't really work for what I need them to do.
Mm-hmm. So understanding like, hey, you can. Do some DYI, but put money where the money It's gonna make you money.
Natalie: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. No, I mean, I tell people all the time to go get headshots done. Mm-hmm. I'll do them for people. I've done photography classes, but you know, it's more so if they need it, it's part of their brand.
I tell people, Hey, go to this person. They're great at that. Or if you need video, like find someone for that. So even if it's outside of my scope, I'll sit down and tell [00:35:00] people. You have a personal business. That's the thing with those personal businesses, they, they love you. Yeah. You know, they feel comfortable with you.
So definitely investing in headshots, because then you could have a couple templates around that, and then you could even post just your headshot with like a really meaningful message. And that will resonate with people. Yeah. Yeah. And it simplifies it, you know? Yeah. The other thing that I, I don't wanna get on my soapbox too much, but don't feel like you have to do every single social media trend.
Do what's smart for your business. Give the information that you know your people are looking for, and that's gonna have a return and lead to a conversation. So if you feel like the pressure of, oh my gosh, I have to do this new dance, or whatever trend that's happening right now, if it's fun for you and it makes sense, do it.
Have fun with it. You know what I mean? But I think a lot of people put pressure on their themselves for that too. I don't fall into every trend on my social media, but I always talk about my [00:36:00] services. Yeah, I always talk about my personal journey as an entrepreneur and that's the stuff that resonates.
And I always invite people off Instagram or off LinkedIn. I will go get a coffee with you. We can get her in a call. Because that's really what I wanna do is show people I care, you know? Yeah, yeah.
Marie: Definitely. I like that. And that makes a lot of sense. And it takes the pressure off It does. Mm-hmm. Because trying to do those lip sync videos not happening.
I can't just can't do it. But
Erika: then
Marie: it's funny to watch, but I can't do it. I mean, in
Erika: our industry, and I could be totally wrong, maybe people wanna see that. For me, I. I can't imagine they do because it would be horrible. Mm-hmm. But, um, I think in our industry, the type of clientele that we are attracting are, are, I mean, they're not younger kids.
Yeah. We need people that have some money that can buy a house. Right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so maybe that's not where it's at, you know, I mean, I've, we've had a lot of people be like, Hey, I don't even touch Facebook. Um, because that's not my demographic and Totally, for some businesses it isn't. Yeah, for ours it is.
You know, it's to, and so there's a lot of money to be made on Facebook if that's where your demographic is. [00:37:00] Um, and so yeah, I think it's all about your business and like the people that you're trying to serve. And does it make sense? Like you, like you mentioned, to even do that kind of thing?
Natalie: Yeah. Think about, I mean.
I just bought my first house last fall. Yeah. And the biggest thing was there's so much people don't know they want use your social media to teach people. Yeah. Like I follow a couple real estate agents and I'm like, wow. They do such a good job of explaining that.
Erika: Yeah.
Natalie: And that's what they're looking for from Yeah.
Your industry, you know what I mean? Same with if you're thinking about working moms. The reason people are gonna show up and come to events is because they see that connection you're building and they see that it's genuine and it's authentic. Yeah. You know, so you don't have to lip sync to a song. No. If you're showing like, look, oh these, yeah, you don't, I mean, you can say, look, these workshops are gonna help you.
This, I'm pro. We're providing you with a community, we're we care about you. Yeah. I mean, that's what drew me to you guys when I started coming was Yeah, just seeing that, seeing the community aspect. So. That [00:38:00] kind of goes back to like, look at what makes you different and what makes you special in your business, and then how can we hone in on that visually, you know what I mean?
Yeah. How can we find the tools that make sense for you? Yeah.
Marie: Well,
Natalie: Natalie,
Marie: we just want it friends. Yeah, that's right.
Erika: That's right. Um, you touched on it just briefly a little bit. Email marketing. Mm-hmm. Um. Anyone that knows me knows that I'm real big on email marketing. Mm-hmm. For the reasons that you said social media is so scary and they can just snap it away at any second.
Mm-hmm. Yes. Um, and so, and I know so many small businesses that have like thousands of emails. Mm-hmm. And they don't do a thing with them. Don't use it. I know. So if you're just breaking out into email marketing, what do you suggest people kind of do? And how often and that kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. If you've got a little collection of emails, but you're not doing anything.
Natalie: Yeah. I mean, first of all, if you have. Thousands on your email list and you're not using it. I know
Erika: several people. I
Natalie: just know I'm jealous of you. Yeah. Because I'm like building my email up. Sure. You know, and, and it, I'm like, man, that is [00:39:00] so powerful and so much more special than you think. And I'm a big believer in email marketing too.
So for email marketing, what I suggest is use the touch points that are working for you already to gather that list. So if someone is buying a product from you, gather their email, you know, have them subscribe to it so it's all consensual. Sure. Um, if you are really active on social media, like we keep saying, that could disappear tomorrow.
So invite people from your social media following onto your email list, like find those touch points. That's a good way to build your list. And then just sit down and think about like, what's important to your audience. Freebies are amazing. You don't have to do a new freebie every month. You can kind of like reuse those or provide, you know, information right now, long form content education, that's something people are looking for and start simple.
Like it's better to be consistent and maybe slower than [00:40:00] to. Do three emails in a row and then not touch it for six months. Yeah. So if you say, Hey, every month I'm gonna do a newsletter, and then you build that up to biweekly and then you build that up to weekly. Mm-hmm. You know, like you can, I suggest the same thing with social media.
If you know, I can post twice a week and I can put out good content, then do that and build from there. But I think if you can kind of use your touch points to build your list, think really hard about. What people actually could take away from this. What can you provide to them? Um, so it's not just spammy emails that they're gonna unsubscribe from, and then just find like a consistent path, you know?
Yeah. That's really good advice. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Marie: I think emails provide a lot of value. I'm, I've started to see more that I pay attention to them more often. Same. But for a longest time I'm like, oh, it's spam. I might, I, but no, nowadays I'm actually looking at my emails and reading stuff that I've subscribed to.
Yeah. That I, you know, obviously I've asked for it, so I wanna, I wanna look at it. Yeah. And I don't wanna miss out on information. [00:41:00]
Natalie: I think it's like a, people wanna learn, you know, and they wanna build. It builds a lot of trust for you too. They say like, when you're selling, 80% of it is giving, you know? Right.
Like, if you can give freebies, if you can give information, if you can just show you care, you know, that's, that's the most important thing because then they'll trust in you as a business owner. So your email is a really good way to do that. I mean, and it, if you can have a loyal email following. You can give longer content, you can talk about things in depth a little bit more that you know are important for your audience.
Yeah.
Erika: Yeah. And I think people are afraid to sh, especially like when we talk about per personal branding, I think people are afraid to share like a story about your real life or like a picture of you with your kids or whatever you wanna do. I think people are confused and I think they feel like that's like unprofessional.
And I feel like it couldn't be further from the truth. No. Or at the end. I like to say like, Hey, um, if you have questions about this or like, if you have done this [00:42:00] or how was your experience with this reply to this email, you know, you're gonna get me reply to this email. Um, I think even for working moms, people are like, can I email you here?
And I'm like, when you do that, it is me. It's, you know, it's not, you know, staff, we don't have staff. It's not, um, you know, some assistant or whatever. It's me. Um, and so I think putting those personal anecdotes and like photos and different things. It isn't an unprofessional move, it just makes that bond between you and your list stronger.
Natalie: Yeah. One of the biggest emails I put out for my business, I also made it a blog. So reuse your content, you know, put it on your website and put it on an email. But I put something out last summer, that was why getting laid off was the best thing that ever happened to me. Oh yeah. Because that's like, I was doing, not Marie Design as a side hustle.
I wanted to do it full-time, but I didn't really believe in myself. And then I got laid off and I was like, no choice. Nope. I'm gonna do this. I really don't wanna apply for other agency jobs. I just wanna pour into this and it. It was one of the best things that ever happened in my life, but [00:43:00] people, I was scared to say that.
Yeah. You know, that's kind of embarrassing in a way, but people connected with it, you know? Yeah. So they, I had so many people reach back out and they're like, I just got laid off, like this was so, you know, impactful for me and things like that. Yeah. So
Marie: I think making it personal makes it. More valuable for people.
Yeah. They know that like mm-hmm. For, for, for my industry, I'm typically a, a a, an EI am just an email. Sometimes they don't see me in person 'cause most people don't wanna come in Yeah. To the bank and talk to me. Um, or I'm a phone call or sometimes I'm a text message. So like, if I'm able to make it more per like, Hey, I'm a mom of three boys.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, been married 20 years. Like this is Mr. Is who I am. I feel like. It makes a bigger difference in my business. Um, funny story is I ran into someone, unfortunately it was at a funeral, and they kept staring at me like they knew me. And I'm like, I don't know who this person is, but I was like, who is this person?
I'm like, I don't know. And they came up like, I know you from somewhere. I know you from somewhere. And it was a client, it was a client of mine. I had never met him in person. Yeah. And he's like, Hey, I, I, [00:44:00] I, I got a text message for you saying happy birthday and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, oh my God. Mr. Villa, like, how are you?
And he goes, I, he goes, I your emails, I get 'em all the time. And I saw your face and I know I knew your face, but I couldn't displace it. Mm-hmm. It was, it made me feel really good. 'cause he was, he was happy to get my content, my emails. Yeah. Um, but he recognized me, so that was kind of cool. Mm-hmm. So, but yeah, make it personal.
Natalie: Yeah.
Marie: And then he asked me about the kids, which was a little aw odd. 'cause I, you know, but yeah, I had put it in an email and he had read it, so. Mm-hmm. That's awesome. Yeah.
Natalie: I mean, people want. To, I think now more than ever invest in humans. You know? Yes. We have a lot of content going out that just feels so generic that when you can be meaningful and, you know, personal, it really, it connects with people.
It makes people feel good. It, it's the reason that you wanna. Go shop from someone and then tell the story of it later. Hey, I actually bought from like this cool boutique and I met the owner. Yes. I do that all the
Erika: time. Yes. Yeah. Like we, I post about it.
Natalie: Mm-hmm. And the reason you [00:45:00] wanna give someone a shout out, you wanna cheer them on.
So I think, um, I think just having that personal touch, it isn't unprofessional. Right. It is something that people love and that they're looking for. I mean, you don't wanna. Get all political. Oh, no. Or like super, you know? Yeah. Unless it makes sense for your industry. Don't, don't get too personal with stuff.
Yeah. Like be professional, but in a way that's encouraging and inspiring and it's like, Hey, I'm a mom. Like when you work with me, you're supporting, I. My family. Yep. Like how good does that make people feel? I say those words. Exactly.
Erika: Yeah. Yeah. No, and it's so true. I mean, I think in the beginning, especially like in our industry, and I'm sure many other industries are like this, finance and things like it was, I felt like I had to look a certain way.
I, I felt like I had to present myself a certain way and it wasn't who I am as a person, and it really made me attract. The wrong kind of client that I wasn't really interested in working with anyway. Yeah. And so I think now, I mean now I dress how I dress and I'm very casual and that's part of my brand really is like, Hey, I'm gonna come in jeans and sneakers and this, but I can [00:46:00] sell a house just as good in a sweatshirt as I can in a blazer, you know?
Yeah. And that's fine. And so I started all of a sudden getting more mom clients and more people that I was really interested in helping and serving, um, because my brand really aligned with that client base. And so, um, I think it's so important to have somebody like you to, to kind of bounce those ideas off of and, and maybe be like, Hey, look, I know you feel like it needs to look like this, but really it sounds like it probably needs to look like this.
Yeah. Yeah.
Natalie: No, I mean, that's the whole thing is when you're working on your branding, like my favorite thing ever is I get to know them. I build something that is special to their business and their story. Then people walk around so confident. Yes. And they, they know like, this is gonna attract the, the women I wanna work with, or the men I wanna work with, or the industries, you know, or this is telling my story.
And when I talk to a client, I can say, yeah, like, you know, I'm, I'm a bookkeeper because I like. That I can build a business and take my family or on vacation every [00:47:00] year. And then that's part of their logo. Like this logo that I keep referring to. Yeah. It's got like a sun kind of beach theme to it. Not in a cheesy way.
Yeah. You know, it's really subtle. That's cool. That's really cool. But it's a part of their story, but it means something to them. Yeah. Or like I worked with an artist once and her color palette and like her, her logo mark was pulled from her sketchbooks and she gets to go tell people that. Oh, I love that.
That is amazing. So it's cool to find those like nuggets of. This is part of my personality and this is part of who I am. That's why I like small businesses. I worked in corporate agencies for a long time and yeah. You know there there's so much red tape. Yes. And it feels so impersonal sometimes that it's so much more fun for me to be able to design around people and get to know them.
Marie: I think social media's forgot that we are people. Mm-hmm. Like it was hard for me with social media and, and. What, what's real, what's not? Like I, the, the whole catfishing, like I, I, oh yeah, I wanna look nice, but I wanna look like me. Like, you're gonna, I have to look like me 'cause this is me. Yeah. But you know, when you see things, so [00:48:00] when you have a personal brand, it makes you realize they're real people.
Mm-hmm. Like, it's not a machine. It's not just, it's not ai, it's not that kind of stuff. Like there are real people behind the product that you're looking for. That's something that, that's kind of cool to have someone in your corner to help you design that. Yeah,
Natalie: exactly.
Erika: Yeah. Well, this has been great. I could literally talk about this all, you could talk about design.
Natalie: This was so fun.
Erika: Yes. And thank you for being on. Can you share with our listeners, um, how they can get ahold of you for your services?
Natalie: Yeah, absolutely. So everything is pretty much under Nat Marie design, so Nat marie design.com. At Namar Designer and Social Media. Sorry. It keeps It's okay, don't worry. Yeah.
Um, at Namar Designer and Social Media, and then if you want to get on a call or if you're in San Antonio, you wanna go grab coffee, just email me at hello at Namar Design and we'll get something on the books. I mean. Seriously, like I, I love community. I'm all about it. So that's a good way to just reach out to me too.
Erika: Yes. That's perfect. Well, we love having you as a part of our community. Love it. Yes, we [00:49:00] do. Yes, me too. We'll also make sure that all of that stuff is in the show notes so people can easily click and get ahold of you. And then I'm just also gonna thank our listeners for tuning into this week's episode, and we will catch you guys next week.
See you guys. Yes.
Natalie: Thank you guys.
Erika: Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We hope you love today's chat and found a little inspiration to take with you into your week. If you have a podcast topic suggestion or a question you'd love for us to cover, definitely send us an email at hello at working moms of san antonio.com.
We'd love to hear from you. And until next time, see you in the community.
